Zebra
Somewhere in, NJ
Male, 62
I've officiated football for over 30 years, now in my 26th on the college level. I've worked NCAA playoffs at the Division II and III level. In addition, I've coached at the scholastic level and have been an educator for over 35 years. I have no interest whatsoever in being an NFL official! Ever!
Yes. The axiom is "a kick is a kick is a kick". If K touches the ball, it is "illegal" or "first" touching, depending on the level (HS, NCAA). But the ball as you describe it is still considered a kick, so being downed in the endzone makes it a touchback.
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We'll only talk highvschool or college here. Simultaneous catches or recoveries go to the offense. When you say "hit the ground" you need to clarify. Catching off the ground and then returning and touching the ground with their feet? Or bodies going to the ground where the players are grounded ending the play? If they come to the ground on their feet in "joint possession", it's still a live ball and they can fight it out. If they go to the ground in joint possession, it's the offense's ball.
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Hey, coach! Tell your player to either catch it in the field of play or in the endzone. No indecision!!
Generally, officials will give the player the benefit of the doubt and say he's in the endzone. But if he is obviously straddling the line as you describe, he's caused all of us problems. It matters where the ball is, not the player. But if he throws it, he just screwed the pooch. If he throws it backwards, it's alive and the kicking team could recover it. If he throws it out of bounds backwards, it's a safety. If he throws it forward from the endzone, it's an illegal forward pass and the penalty is marked from the spot of the foul -- safety.
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I believe all levels of football rules are pretty much in agreement on this. The NCAA rule book states: "Forward progress is a term indicating the end of advancement by the ball carrier or airborne pass receiver of either team and applies to the position of the ball when it becomes dead by rule."
The ball was held out and then the whistle blew. The ball was at a certain position - where Elliott had held it out - and that was where it was determined to have been when the runner's progress ended. It isn't much different from a ball carrier extending the ball over the goal line and then being pushed back; touchdown. Position of the ball.
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What's the closest you've come to "losing it" on someone you were helping?
I'm anot official, not a football historian.
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Once the punter has kicked and recovers and goes to be involved in the play (going after/tackling a runner) he's a player and is no different than any other player. Same with a QB after an interception. If the QB goes to tackle and participates in the play, he's fair game. If he just stands there, then you can't hit him.
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The defense had a problem. The offense will accept the penalty for offside and the down will be replayed. Tough luck.
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